Posted by squid on October 10, 2008 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

easy solution to this. Everybody gets pizza. All 20 students are given a party. The 15 passing students get pepperoni, the other 5 get anchovie....

Posted by FamilyMan on October 10, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Better solution. Let's get everyone to pass the test.

Posted by conserveABI on October 10, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's another solution: stop spending school budget money on pizza and buy educational supplies with it.

Posted by bigdaddy5 on October 10, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I will pay for the pizza party at the school our kids go to! This is absurd and all of you people worried about hurting other kids feelings is crap and ludacrious! We as a country need to quit treating everyone as equal.

Kids who excel in sports are held back more because little Johnny has to get his minimum time or 50% time playing regarding of his ability - referring to sports younger than middle and high school age. Kids need to be rewarded for excellent grades, passing the big tests, and earning good citizenship marks! We don't reward anyone anymore because EVERYONE EXPECTS EQUAL TREATMENT regardless of the task! Maybe that is what's wrong with our country!!!

Posted by blahblah on October 10, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

bigdaddy---you are entitled to your opinion but it is too bad to feel that way. What about the kids that truely have disabilities and learning disorders? What message is that sending them? "I am treated differently because I have a learning disability...but it's okay, I was just born that way". What does "your opinion" about this say to the kids?

I understand about the kids that just don't try, but isn't your opinion a little harsh?

Posted by bigdaddy5 on October 10, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My comments do not include people with disabilities. I have numerous teachers in my family and they complain aboutthe same thing! We as a society reward everyone regardless of the situation. Everyone has to take and pass teh TAKS to move on, the only thing is, majority of the time it overlooks those with disabilities. We still need to be able to reward those who work hard in the classroom! It is better to give the kids something to look forward to than dumbing down the system to include EVERYONE. There are special programs to help those who trully need it which I applaud!

Posted by Patriot on October 10, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So we punish the majority because the minority my get their feelings hurt

Posted by northside67 on October 10, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This just illustrates the problems with HIGH stakes testing! Same principle with making students pass the TAKS to advance grade levels. IF only 15 of 20 are passed to the next grade, it is pretty obvious who failed. The TAKS test is not the be-all-end-all judge of what a student learns in school! So lets quit making this test bigger than it really is and have some common sense with it!

Posted by bigdaddy5 on October 10, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i see the continual movement to a more socialistic society - everyone has to be equal! Bull Sh$#!!!!

Posted by tb123 on October 10, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Blahblah - students who have disabilities (learning or other) don't always take the regular TAKS test. They take one that relates to their grade level or ability. They are required to pass one for the "grade level" they are on. They don't take the same test as the "regular" students. And at the school I teach at, the learning disabled are rewarded just as the "regular" kids are rewarded.

If you put a "prize" on the test, you get more effort, more passing. I know - I'm a teacher and all the schools in town do it......you get results when you attach a reward.

Posted by tb123 on October 10, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And I'm not saying whether or not I agree with the reward, I'm just saying in today's society, you get results when there is a reward!

Posted by mabynot1539 on October 10, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When I went to school, the students who won academic honors would get a gift ceritificate. Why not discreetly give them gift certificates to Gatti's or Cici's?

Posted by furankuoogata on October 10, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i remember as a kid (even now at work) having to dumb myself down because the others tend to resent you. it is not my fault that certain things are simple to me. it is not something we outgrow, because, i said, even now at work i have to do it. man, the days that i don't have to is awesome. but i do think there are valid points about the "pc" of the times, not everyone is equal, and we need to celebrate those differences. as long as all the students get the equal opportunity and class time and education, then the ones with educational needs (not handicapped they have resources for them) can put in the extra effort to do better but it should be up to them. pizza party rewards are fine, no one knows how dumb the failures are, they could have been sick that day or just barely missed it by one point, don;t be mad because your kid is lazy or just an idiot, my kid wants pizza! lol... (now everyone is going to bash and try to correct my typing in my posts or something else, i didn't say i am perfect, and honestly i rarely spell check myself for these, but if you have nothing better to do go ahead, because you missed the point of my post)

Posted by mbs0606 on October 10, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What grade level do they start giving the TAKS test?

Posted by blahblah on October 10, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tb and bigdaddy---I truely do understand what you are saying and agree that good things should be rewarded.

However, tb...you as a teacher should know that there are "lots" of kids in school with learning disabilities that have not been discovered yet. Everyone thinks they just "aren't applying themselves."

I know this for a fact as I went through this. I was in the 9th grade (almost the end of the school year) before they realized I did have dyslexia. Before that, everyone just said I didn't care so I didn't try. After that, my grades excelled. I majored in Accounting and Business Mgmt. I am now successful.

They did the same thing back then (20-25) years ago with rewarding "only" the ones that passed. I can't tell you how that knocked my self esteem down.

bigdaddy---As for sports...Not everyone has the same athletic ability. Your comment, " Kids who excel in sports are held back more because little Johnny has to get his minimum time"---well it was hateful. And please don't tell me that I don't know anything about that. I was very athletic in school as are my son and daughter. I love for them to excell and win in everything they do.

But the biggest lesson learned in sports isn't winning. It is about teamwork and helping those who are "not" as advanced as another. It is really no different than going to war. You work together and if you have a man down, you don't kick him, you help him up...and that is what "true" sportsmanship is all about.

But---you are entitled to you opinion.

Holy Cow------Sorry folks, that is the longest comment I think I have ever written on here. LOL

I am however, not a good speller so please don't bother bashing or correcting me...I know.

Posted by tb123 on October 10, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Great comments blahblah - I am glad you notice that people aren't always "caught" for special services before the test - however, if the teacher is observant, they can tell a struggling student and hopefully get them the help they need. I know if I have a kid who is struggling, I want them tested to make sure and luckily I work at a campus who wants the best for all kids and they do their best to target all students and get them placed where they need to be.

Posted by tb123 on October 10, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

msb-the first TAKS test is administered in 3rd grade. They must pass it to move on to 4th grade. And, they are given 3 chances to pass it if they fail the first time. The same thing happens in 5th, 8th, and 11th. If by the third time you can't pass the test, then you really do need to stay in that same grade rather than move on. After the first test is given, so many "tutoring" opportunities are given and those kids are given everyone's attention in an attempt to get them to pass.

Posted by blahblah on October 10, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tb...I am very thankful for all the teachers that do what they can to help the kids and pay attention to the special needs.

I know alot has changed in 25 years!

Kudos to the great teachers...

Posted by queenmac3 on October 10, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"... students who have disabilities (learning or other) don't always take the regular TAKS test. They take one that relates to their grade level or ability. They are required to pass one for the "grade level" they are on. They don't take the same test as the "regular" students. And at the school I teach at, the learning disabled are rewarded just as the "regular" kids are rewarded."

This information is slightly incorrect. They do take a TAKS test for their grade level not for their ability level which can be VERY different. the "special" test is still written at the grade level. The difference in this TAKS test in reading is that they read one less passage and the print is bigger. Same questions just in bigger print. And yes, those kids who pass this test usually are rewarded as if they had passed the longer version. It is just to clarify what you were probably trying to say.

And why should they pass? What motivation is there for them to pass? To move on? Well, it only takes a parent to go up there to the committee and say "I want my kid to go on" and they do. (Yes, that does happen in Abilene.) Children, for the most part, are not internally motivated. The idea of not moving on to the next grade is almost too abstract for them.

TAKS testing has dumbed down the curriculum, in my opinion. We are no longer teaching students to be prepared for the outside world, we are preparing them to take a test.

Posted by bigdaddy5 on October 10, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

blah - "They did the same thing back then (20-25) years ago with rewarding "only" the ones that passed. I can't tell you how that knocked my self esteem down." Ahhhhhh......

That is exactly what I am talking about. People worry about hurting these kids' feelings instead of promoting and rewarding the ones really working and passing. Tag on a reward and give them a boost. EVERYONE SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS EQUALS (not talkinga bout handicapped)!!!!!!!Positive reinforcement!

Posted by blahblah on October 10, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bigdaddy---you are obviously too hard headed to see the point I am making so you just take it how you want and I will leave it at that.

Posted by greygoose23 on October 10, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too much testing, too much pressure, not enough pizza and thinking skills!

Posted by rampbrat on October 10, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The state of Texas has recently set a percentage for special ed. You are only allowed to have a certain percentage of your students who are labeled special ed. whether that is the reality or not.
As far as rewards, the kids all know who passed what. How do they know? They tell each other. Kids are kids. They work better for rewards. We saw that when we started testing 10th graders. They wanted to know what happened if they didn't pass the test. We said nothing, its the 11th grade test you have to pass. Then the kids wouldn't even show up to take the test. Now we let them skip the final if they pass TAKS. This is being done throughout the state, but pizza parties are bad. That's our Texas government for you.

Posted by tiny on October 10, 2008 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This isn't a societal problem, it’s a lawyering problem. Most educators agree with reward for good performance.

The problem is some trial attorney gets involved and sues the schools because little Johnny’s feelings and privacy were violated.

The same is true with regards to discipline and expulsion. If the schools where allowed to demand discipline with out fear of losing taxpayer money to some ridiculous law suit. Things would be much better.

I know Shakespeare didn’t mean it that way, but he had a point, “the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers”

Posted by tb123 on October 10, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It doesn't only take a committee - every person on that committee has to agree. I have sat on a few of those meetings myself and it made the parents mad, but their child stayed behind....

Posted by HoursAway on October 10, 2008 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate the TAKS. As a teacher I hate to see kids actually learning LESS because we're teaching them how to pass a test! It's a joke if anyone thinks the information really sticks! It can't, we zip from this to that in a 5-6 months so they may remember some for the test, but with the pressure attached? Many fail because of nerves and the fact not everyone is a test-taker. I have a niece in the AISD who has always been an A+ student. She learns quicker than any child I know and is naturally gifted. All of a sudden she's in tutoring twice a week for math! Along with 14 of her other classmates. Here's the thing, she's been doing wonderfully in math so why is she in tutoring an extra hour after school? Because she's in third grade and the teacher is paranoid that kids will fail the TAKS and of course it reflects on the teacher. It's ridiculous.
Back to incentives. We're offering a much larger incentive - days off of school. Now tell me that won't make it obvious who passed and who didn't. I think on those days the kids that failed will have some type of intense TAKS prep work and lessons.

Posted by kelly_41_2000 on October 10, 2008 at 9 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A pay off is still a pay off no matter how you color it.Why is it the TAKS has so much value over other tests? It really seems politically motivated. Is that what our education system has come to?

Posted by finnysister on October 10, 2008 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It doesn't really matter what people think about TAKS...it's no longer going to be used after 2011!! (or 2012, I can't remember) Students will have an End of Course Exam taking at the end of the year instead of February.
Bottom line--the TAKS stinks!! NCLB is full of problems! (that's No Child Left Behind) The people setting the rules and regulations for education haven't been in a classroom in YEARS, if at all! They need to go into schools and see what stupid laws they are placing on teachers and students.
I'm just waiting for some parent to stand up and sue the state. If parents truly knew their rights and the rights of their children, then we would see some changes.

Posted by BucFan on October 10, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

God forbid we reward a kid for doing what he is supposed to do. My school takes it one step further in stupidity. We can't have pizza parties for those who pass but we have pizza delivered during the after school study sessions for those who didn't! So...no reward if you pass but pizza if you fail. Unfortunately all politicians seem to be worried about is the kid who does nothing in class and then fails. Oh my goodness! Let's throw a bunch of money at him instead of spending on those that actually give a crap about learning something in school!!

Posted by GaryBuseysBartender on October 11, 2008 at 12:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Unbelievable! Political correctness, which may be an oxymoron, has absolutely ruined the future of our country. Think about it. When you excel at something, you should be rewarded. When you suck at something, you should use the fact that you didn't get rewarded to improve yourself. I'm sorry about your inner child, but the only guarantees you get are life, liberty and the "pursuit" of happiness. Unfortunately, that pursuit doesn't always end well. What really drives me crazy is the whole sports problem. How can little Johnny learn how to be a gracious loser if nobody's keeping score? How does he get motivated to becoming a better hitter if he gets to bat every game anyway? And here's my favorite...how do our kids learn how to throw the ball straight if there are no gutters? When these kids are in their 20s, college degree in hand, walking into a job interview, how are they going to handle the word "No"? All their life, they've been told that they're special, but it turns out they really aren't. All of a sudden, the ball goes in the gutter, and no pins fall down. OOPS! Teach your children to succeed, but teach them how to handle it when they don't. Otherwise, that empty nest is gonna fill up again when they realize that life isn't what they thought it would be. Maybe you could fix 'em that pizza they didn't get in school.

Posted by forjustalark on October 11, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe they should have a party honoring all who passed but invite everyone. I remember being in the 6th grade and there was a school party at the end of the year but I was not allowed to go because of my grades. Here the thing my family was going through a bad custody battle and i was in counseling. I was so messed up that I could only do my best and it was not good enough. It really upset me that I could not go when all my friends could. I think that they should reward good students but invite every one to celebrate with them.

Posted by huckster on October 11, 2008 at 8:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

political correctness gone wild.

as a former educator, i KNOW that positive reinforcers work. i KNOW that most kids will work harder to get these positive rewards if we let them experience the consequence of seeing their peers achieve while they don't.

the system is bass ackwards. lets celebrate the kids who achieve.

let's keep score at sporting events. too many in america today don't know how to win because they've never been challenged by loosing. (and just as an aside to a previous post - the point of war is not to teach teamwork. the point of war is to win. because we no longer have the attitude that we should fight the war to win, we too often don't.)

let's help the kids who need extra help, but my gosh, shouldn't the bulk of our resources go to those who strive and achieve? (just like others, i'm not talking about the truely disabled)

Posted by barneyfife on October 15, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Everyone has questions and no answers. That's the problem. I am a 4th year teacher and I already wish I was closer to retirement. I graduated from high school 8 years ago and it is amazing to see the difference in the attitudes of students from when I was in school. Even in the 4 years I've taught it has changed. The MAJORITY of today's kids are not motivated. My principal and superintendent always ride our cases about getting kids to do better. What am I supposed to do if the kid doesn't care and neither does his/her parents? They have been trained that they are not responsible for their actions and someone else will do it for them. I wish someone knew the answer. It would make my job a lot easier!