Posted by robertvp on August 28, 2008 at 12:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That is one of many reasons I will never give to Abilene United Way. Planned Parenthood is an industry of death. Death of our teens heart, mind, body and soul.

Posted by qquixi on August 28, 2008 at 12:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm thankful for the many services that Planned Parenthood provides for young people that are being taught that abstinence is the only way.
They are there to help with the real issues that people are facing today. All people are sexual beings from birth to death, to ignore that can put people in unhealthy even deadly positions. Education is the key. Support Planned Parenthood

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 12:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

teaching abstinence doesn't ignore the fact that people are sexual beings. it means teaching responsibil behavior which is very human. it's one of those neat things that separate us from the animals.

Posted by jcmcjd1952 on August 28, 2008 at 12:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There was a recent time when Abilene had a very high birthrate for unwed mothers. This in a city of morality and churches and great family values. When I taught my four boys about sex (now aged 32 to 23) we talked about abstainece to condoms and all that was in between. I have no grand children out of wedlock. Teaching children what is right and wrong rather than making rules and avoiding talking about it is what it takes. Be thankful that someone has the guts to talk to your kids about the stuff you never will. Planned Parenthood gets my vote and if you don't like it then lock your kids up and don't let them look. Then when the boy says if he pulls out it is okay that she cannot get pregnant - she will believe him. It happens every day - most girls don't plan to get pregnant but most believed what ever lie the boy told them cuz they didn't know the truth.
Jim

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 1:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jim,
how very condescending of you. you just insulted every girl out there because you assume that they are all so dumb they will believe every lie a boy tells them.

you also speak down to every other parent out here. you taught your boys about sex but the rest of us don't have the guts to teach our kids, so hurray for planned parenthood.

maybe your boys are good kids. if so, i would have to credit their mother. as for you, life long abstinence might have been the best course of action.

Posted by jcmcjd1952 on August 28, 2008 at 2 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks huck - the point is that both boys and girls repeat stupid stuff they hear on the street. The myths, the pranks, the unsubstantiated tales. Many a girl believes and tells the boy she canot get pregnant in her period. If he knows no better then he believes that lie too. Either way - both are stupid in that they are thinking with the wrong head. All of it out of ignorance. The mistake if there is one is that to make a point it is often necessary to narrow the field. If I were a woman and could speak from a woman's point of view I am sure you could make hash out of it too and call me a bad mom. This problem has a male and female perspective both equally sad. Yes, when it comes to sex we all make silly, stupid decisions. The only way to fight that is knowledge. Truth is that many parents approach to sex education is to avoid it at all cost, never talk about it and if you do - let someone else do it.

You spent so much time making me out the baffoon that I guess what I said had merit and truth. You wasted no time on that.

I will ignore the rest for it does not bear noticing but I will not wish ill on you fine sir. Oh yeah - I was/am the mother too - sorry.

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 7:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This isn't about making a mistake because you didn't know or couldn't control yourself because of raging hormones, this is about killing children.

A quote from the all time bestselling book says "You shall not kill". So, what part of "not" don't you understand.

Posted by sauria on August 28, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SO all life is precious Tumbleweed and killing is never justifed?

Posted by cadechar on August 28, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Killing of the innocent is never justified.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Planned Parenthood is as insidious as the Nazis. There is no reason in the world why there should be anything taught to children except ABSTINENCE ONLY. Sex is meant for procreation, not fun. Sex is for MARRIAGE only. If you teach your kids anything other than abstinence, I have no time for you. You're immoral and God is not pleased.

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sauria all life is precious and killing an unborn child is wrong

Posted by mommakelly_64 on August 28, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

kelpy I feel sorry for your wife/husband.

Posted by Reagan_Bush08 on August 28, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Garbage in......Garbage out

Obama in........Garbage out

Posted by whatuthink on August 28, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Summary and comment by NRLC spokesman Douglas Johnson: "Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an Illinois state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion -- even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obama's legislative actions in 2003 -- denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions -- were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose."

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

whatuthink - This would be my townhall question for Obama. Mr. Obama you claim to be a Christian so use the bible as your basis for the answer to this question; How do you advocate abortion in any form?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Abortion is one of my favorite topics on which to just hang the crazy throttle wide open and let 'er spin completely sideways. I'm sure that point in the thread will come, but I guess I'll start by trying to be reasonable:

Though we have different reasons, both sides of this debate share a common goal: reducing the number of abortions. From a standpoint of prevention, the only real consideration should be finding what works and implementing it. Abstinence-only education does not work (that should be common knowledge by now, but I will provide links on request.) What works is meaningful, honest sex education and access to contraceptives. If that can be COMBINED with parental involvement, teaching values at home, and strong self-esteem, so much the better, but it isn't always.

Prevention is where the two sides can find common ground. Support early, meaningful sex education.

Posted by mstiah on August 28, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'll be glad when this election is over, I'm really sick of hearing about Obama and McCain. People that are truely interested in knowing the pros and cons will do the research themselves and decide based on that.

Posted by mstiah on August 28, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dalai,

I always enjoy reading your posts.

Posted by jcmcjd1952 on August 28, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I knew this would turn in to a ditribe on abortion. But the truth is that if the bible is your source, your morals are good and you teach your children well the abortion will not only not happen but will not be needed in the first place.

The fact is that Planned Parenthood exists and thrives as do abortions because we make more babies than we should. The facts are that educated people don't make unneeded babies.

Plus - If you want to stop the abortion then put your name on a list to be first to adopt the kid. If you outlaw abortions like you want to, then it will be like it was when I was a teen. A "Doctor" with a coat hanger or sister Sue going away for school, sickness or what ever. Even when she came back unpregnant it did not solve the problem. And in the fifties who really cared what happened to the baby.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mstiah,

Thank you. I really appreciate that, and likewise. When your posts are short, they're sharp. When they're long, they're well-stated and thoughtful, which always impresses me.

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mutual appreciation society aside any takers on the editors offer?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tumbleweed,

His answer would probably include some mention of the fact that there are approximately one hundred thousand gajillion ways to interpret the Bible. It might even include mention of the belief that life begins at conception being a purely-religious idea, against which the state must balance the non-religious personal freedoms to which we are all entitled.

Incidentally, I understand that God is living and active, an eternal being whose presence and divine will shape every aspect of our lives. If you can put in a good word and get Him to swing by my pad one of these days to tell me in person that He agrees with you, I'd be more than happy to reconsider my stance.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think I missed something. What editors offer?

Posted by DB on August 28, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jim, thank you for your posting. I have kids also and taught them that they have to be RESPONSIBLE for their actions. Because of the economy, I believe that the US should put a limit on how many children a person can have.

Posted by rampbrat on August 28, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

FYI: Planned Parenthood also provides services to women who are not pregnant and women who are married.

Posted by ranger56 on August 28, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

renoij, you really need to check your facts. United Way of Abilene does NOT, NEVER HAS, supported Planned Parenthood. I don't know where you got that, but it is absolutely false.

It is true that some United Ways support PP in their local areas, but those decisions are made by local boards. Abilene UW has NEVER supported PP.

In fact, not only does UW NOT support PP, they DO support an organization called "Aim for Success," which gives programs to AISD & WISD students with an abstinence-based lesson.

Full disclosure: I am a former UW-volunteer, but don't take my word for it. Go to UW's website and look at their list of funded programs, give them a call, or better yet, become a volunteer and find out for yourself.

Posted by robertvp on August 28, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rangwer read the letter, that was what I was going by. How much does the Director of United Way get paid?

Posted by JarHead on August 28, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The bible does not say that life begins at conception. It says that life begins at the first breath. In fact, many scriptural stories didn't count the child until it was at least a year old.

The debate over abortion and a woman's right to make her own choice in the matter is a trumped up hot button issue that plays to the emotions and is nothing more than a power grab by religious zealots who will lie to their flocks and are trying to take over the government of this country. They have willingly allowed the conservatives to hijack their religion for no reason but for votes. They claim they are for less government but want to increase the government power to invade the private lives of women and even use the constitution to criminalize there right to choose. The pick on the weakest part of society to advance their power toward total fascism.

They are the same people who go around spouting that the ten commandments should be prominently displayed in the public square while they cannot recite more than two of them and while they do not even prominently in or around their own church houses.

They claim to be teaching their children sustenance sex education and promote it as a public policy while it is their young women who overwhelmingly seek abortions.

If we are to reduce the numbers of mothers turning to abortion, we must create a country where those mothers know their children will have a good chance of a good life. A country where poverty is eliminated, where there is excellent health care, excellent education, and opportunities for good work available to all.

Criminalizing abortion will do nothing to prevent that tragic choice.

Planned Parenthood has done far more to prevent unwanted pregnancies, infant mortality and abortion than all the preachers and conservative politicians combined.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"How much does the Director of United Way get paid?"

A lot? A little? More than me but less than you? Does she fly to St. Tropez on the weekends to spend her money on cabana boys and stiff mai tais? Does she make ends meet shuffling and playing blues harmonica for peanuts and pennies on the corner of Cypress and North 2nd? Is her portfolio prudently diversified?

How on earth is her salary possibly relevant to anything in this thread?

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jarhead you said "The bible does not say that life begins at conception." This makes me believe you haven't read the all time best seller as Jeremiah 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Posted by cottonball107 on August 28, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not know how the United Way director's salary is relevant to the article. I do know that a few years back according to an ARN article the muli-millionaire made 80 Thousand dollars a year plus expenses. What she does with her salary I dont know.. She may give it back or donate it to some other charity..

Posted by Tumbleweed on August 28, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dali that corner of Cypress and N 2nd is a union spot and I doubt they would allow such a thing.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

That clearly states that we all existed as spiritual beings, that we were living in Heaven and walking with God before he sent us to inhabit corporeal bodies. I didn't realize you were Mormon.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Dali that corner of Cypress and N 2nd is a union spot and I doubt they would allow such a thing."

Maybe not, but I'd throw in a fiver to see it. Especially if she can really wail on the mouth harp.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

where to start, where to start?

dalai wrote:
"What works is meaningful, honest sex education and access to contraceptives. If that can be COMBINED with parental involvement, teaching values at home, and strong self-esteem, so much the better, but it isn't always."

i think you have these reversed. the goal should be parent involvement that leads to meaningful, honest sex education. raising kids is the job of parents, not the government. you and i have also gotten into this pissing match before. for every site you can give that says abstinence only ed doesn't work i can give one that says that it does.

DB wrote:
"I believe that the US should put a limit on how many children a person can have."

i would love to think you are kidding but from earlier posts, i know you aren't. i would request that you commit to never becoming a parent.

jarhead,
you go on a diatribe against Christians? i'm shocked since almost 100% of your posts do the same. newsflash! there are many people who are not Christian believers who also believe that life begins at conception. how do you explain that? i bet they are just ignorant fools who have been led astray by the evil Christian community.

Posted by Reagan_Bush08 on August 28, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by JarHead on August 28, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The bible does not say that life begins at conception. It says that life begins at the first breath. In fact, many scriptural stories didn't count the child until it was at least a year old."

---Which Bible were you reading? Must have been the same one Nancy Pelosi reads also.

"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

Uses "man, woman, child, son, daughter, baby etc."
Since these terms are used for unborn children, then we have evidence that human life is present before birth
The Bible makes no distinction of any kind in the terms used to describe a fetus.
The blood is the life: Deut 12:23 fetus has bloodstream at 4 weeks
B. "Begat sons and daughters" Gen 5:3,4,28-30
Begat always refers to conception and fertilization
C. "children & sons in womb" Gen 25:21-22; 2 Ki 19:3; Ruth 1:11
D. "a man child conceived" Job 3:3
notice the difference: day of birth, night conceived see Rev 12:5 "man child born"
E. "mother" of unborn child Num 12:12; Lk 1:43
F. Rom 9:11 for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad
G. "baby leapt for joy" in mother's womb Lk 1:41,44
conceived a "son" Lk 1:36; Acts 7:29

http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm

Posted by maggiedog on August 28, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Huckster I agree with you.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"i think you have these reversed."

Reversed in order of importance, yes. Reversed in relation to this discussion, no. Parents and family are going to be the strongest factor (I would think) in influencing teen sex, granted. I think that is a good thing. I think that is the way it should be. I think that is to be encouraged and applauded.

However, school and community efforts (such as Planned Parenthood) are going to be the most important factors in influencing teens who are not getting good sex ed at home. Not at all coincidentally, the teens who are not getting good sex at home are the teens most at risk and most in need of real, meaningful knowledge that will help them avoid disease and pregnancy.

I am always confused and astounded at those who claim they want to reduce the number of abortions, but fight tooth and nail to deny teens the one thing (information about contraception) that actually has any real impact. This is not a difficult problem. I don't even mind teaching abstinence as a COMPONENT of a meaningful sex-ed curriculum, but abstinence-only education is a return to the Dark Ages.

If you want to play dueling sources about its effectiveness, by the way, I'd be all about it. When sources conflict, you have to look more closely at their credibility, and I am not at all afraid of that.

Posted by mbs0606 on August 28, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Planned Parenthood is also a great place to go when you have no insurance and don't want to pay a ridiculous amount for exams or contraceptives.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sex outside MARRIAGE is WRONG no matter what. Anything that does not explicitly DISCOURAGE sex outside marriage is WRONG and IMMORAL!! Planned Parenthood, sex education, contraceptive education, and anything encouraging ABORTION is WRONG and IMMORAL and goes against everything in the BIBLE, which is the basis for the laws and standards in this CHRISTIAN nation.

Get your heads out of the sand people! If we don't get on track with God and support the REPUBLICAN PARTY in this election we are doomed to hellfire and damnation!!!

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I see.

Well played, sir.

Posted by elle789 on August 28, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The website the letter mentioned is www.takecaredownthere.org and I agree with Grace. You might want to also check out another PP website - www.teenwire.com.

Posted by whatuthink on August 28, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Huckster- I'm afraid DB is already a parent. I read her post I beleive she's in need of help.
The Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Bill that Obama was against was to let babies born alive during a botched abortion have the right to life. These babies had taken their first breath.

Posted by ranger56 on August 28, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

renoij, you're right - my apologies for not reading the original letter carefully enough. I don't know where Ms. Thomas got her information, but it is flat wrong.

I don't know what the United Way President's current salary is, but it's a matter of public record and could be found out easily enough. But I agree, that I'm not sure how that information is relevant to this discussion. The last time I checked, it seemed like a reasonable amount for managing an organization with their budget and responsibilities.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

okay dalai,
we've done some of this before, but what the heck. i have no desire to play dueling sites with you again. we obviously disagree about what makes a site credible.

i agree with much of what you have said, but not all. parents and family should be the primary purveyors of morals education (like sex ed). those kids who don't have involved parents are those most likely to make poor decisions that result in unplanned pregnancies. but the only mandated sex ed that should be taught in public schools is abstinence only. i don't want the government (schools) contradicting what i am teaching at home. if the school wants to offer a course that teaches sex ed other than abstinence only that the parents can choose to have their kids attend, i have no heartburn with that.

while planned parenthood may do some good things, that for me is outweighed by the fact that they do PROMOTE and in some cases perform abortions.

it still amazes me that some are so outraged by the waterboarding of terrorists, but they care nothing for the millions of innocent lives that have been lost through abortion.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Huckster, the only reason the libs and demoncrats support abortion is so they can keep using it as birth control. If it feels good do it, right libs?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kelpy,

Abortion only feels good if you can get one of the hot doctors willing to go the extra mile to give you a really satisfying abortion experience.

Most women aren't that lucky; they get old balding doctors who don't even bother to put on some Barry White or warm up the lube they use on the vacuum. It's even worse if you go to a Quickie-Bort. Their suction tubes aren't ribbed, they don't use the fuzzy leopard-print covers on their stirrups, and they've all got tacky overhead fluorescent lighting.

That's why meaningful sex education is so important. If teen girls don't have access to straightforward information about sex, it might take them three or four abortions to find a clinic that makes a good margarita.

Nobody wants that.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Attagirl Llama. Keep making my point for me. I'd wash my daughter's mouth out with soap if she talked like you. Thankfully, MY daughter was taught godly morals and values and would never stoop to your level. I'll still pray for you though. Hopefully someone will come along that will teach you how a lady is supposed to act.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Huckster,

If you don't want your kids learning basic information about human sexuality, contraception, and the spread of disease that's up to you; pull them out of school and teach them whatever you want. This is a public-health concern and a taxpayer concern (aren't you one of the loudest squealers about welfare queens?), however, and the rest of society has a vested interest in ensuring that this country's teens aren't knocking each other up left right and sideways and spreading diseases six ways from Sunday.

Teen pregnancy and disease have a high social cost. I'm open to being convinced. Assuming that our goals are the same (minimizing teen pregnancy and STD's), how will denying teens information about contraception and disease control achieve those goals?

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sex education ENCOURAGES teenagers to have sex you moron. Sex causes PREGNANCY. Geez louise lady, can't you get that through your thick skull?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kelpy,

Are you flirting with me?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Sex education ENCOURAGES teenagers to have sex you moron."

Pro-tip: that Val Halen video with the teacher and the pencil wasn't really sex education.

Posted by mbs0606 on August 28, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kelpy- EEEKKKK!!! You rubbed me wrong on this one. While I do agree that premarital sex might not be the best thing for people, I am one that did have a child out of wedlock. SO SUE ME!!!! The father and I did not plan to conceive a child but when we found out the news we knew we had to make the best of it. We did not want to get married, based solely on being pregnant. A year later we did get married and had our son involved in our ceremony.

But obviously you are a brainwashed repub like the most of them. I do not consider myself a liberal, democrat, or republican. I have never agreed 100% with any party. But I can say that it is people like you and your stick up the rear end views that give us a bad name. Go ahead folks shoot. I've got my bullet proof vest on.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YOU might not consider yourself a liberal or a democrat, but if you were having sex before marriage, that's exactly what you are. If it feels good do it. That should be the Demoncrats MOTTO.

Posted by JarHead on August 28, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hukster, suggesting "it still amazes me that some are so outraged by the waterboarding of terrorists, but they care nothing for the millions of innocent lives that have been lost through abortion." is an outright lie. Many of us care deeply about the loss of a child's life and we care deeply about the dangers to those lives no matter what the age. Ya'll are so adamant that life begins at hello and it should only be created in the missionary position under certain blessings and so what if sometimes that's rape. You well know that everyone will get emotional to protect children so you are full of when life begins but after it's born, waterboard away and if that doesn't go to suite you, there's always capital punishment. In between all you care about other life is how you can push it around with your emontions.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dalai,
in typical lib fashion, you have assumed much of what i said instead of actually reading it.

my kids know the "basic information about human sexuality, contraception, and the spread of disease" because my wife and i are good teachers. you need to learn that the government doesn't have to do something for it to get done.

i clearly stated that if the school wanted to offer classes in all kinds of sex ed that are NOT mandatory, and the parents can choose to have their kids take these classes, then i don't have a problem with it. isn't it telling that you want to determine what my kids are taught about sexuality and right and wrong. no thanks.

if parents are encouraged to be involved and allowed to choose different courses, how is that denying kids information?

just because you libs like to accuse conservatives of forcing our views on the rest of society, it doesn't make it true. libs are the ones who are convinced they KNOW best and want to impose your views on me and my family.

Posted by ranger56 on August 28, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let me see how many folks I can offend and annoy:

kelpy, the last time I read my Bible, salvation and deliverance from hell came by God's grace through faith in Christ Jesus, not by voting Republican. (Or Democratic either, for that matter.)

dalai-llama, I often enjoy your posts, even when I disagree with you, but your latest post was crude and vulgar. Even those who support abortion rights acknowledge it is a painful, tramatic, personal choice, and if we're going to debate the subject, that debate should be conducted with civility and respect, two things that are almost always lacking from this blog.

Finally, I would have a lot more respect for abortion foes, if I thought most of them had ever given a thought about the need for adoptive parents, or the desperate situation of most women who seek abortions.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"my wife and i are good teachers... the government doesn't have to do something for it to get done."

Are you and your wife volunteering to teach every 9th grader in Texas about the birds and the bees? Because if not, school is the only option to ensure that EVERY student has access to this information. If you are teaching your kids good information about sex, then homes like yours are not the ones these policies are designed to address.

"i clearly stated that if the school wanted to offer classes in all kinds of sex ed that are NOT mandatory, and the parents can choose to have their kids take these classes, then i don't have a problem with it."

You did clearly state that, and I am clearly disagreeing with you. As I said, this is a public health concern. It is in society's best interest (as well as the interests of babies unfortunate enough to be born to uneducated single teen moms) to ensure that every American understands the basic mechanisms of sex and contraception, and is in possession of the information necessary to prevent the spread of STD's. That's why it's important that basic, meaningful sex education be mandatory. It affects us all.

"isn't it telling that you want to determine what my kids are taught about sexuality and right and wrong."

I want to ensure that your kids are taught the basics of sexuality. Teaching right and wrong are, appropriately, up to you.

"if parents are encouraged to be involved and allowed to choose different courses, how is that denying kids information?"

Abstinence-ONLY education precludes the teaching of contraception. Abstinence-only curricula omit teaching kids about contraception because (as Kelpy said) it supposedly encourages them to have sex. As I said, I think encouraging abstinence is a good thing, as long as contraception and safe sex are taught as well.

Posted by onesmallvoice on August 28, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To those who believe that teaching abstinance is the ONLY way: maybe that worked for you and yours. However. DO you really want the rest of the world to be forced to teach that rule alone? Because I can tell you there will be more unwanted pregnancies than you can imagine. All tweens should be informed and educated. They WILL make their own choices, whether or not they have the education to protect themselves. And one mistake is not worth the unfortunate results that can happen.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"dalai-llama, I often enjoy your posts, even when I disagree with you, but your latest post was crude and vulgar."

It was. Kelpy's trolling got under my skin, and I had a little too much fun with my response. I didn't intend to offend anyone but him.

I've suggested removal, and I would encourage you to do the same.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

very narrow-minded, dalai. sexuality is one of those places where you can't teach the how's without teaching the why's which leads to morals education. i don't want you determining what morals to teach to my kids as i am sure that you don't want me determining what morals to teach to your kids.

you stated that you want to ensure that my kids are taught the basics of sexuality. but sexuality is so much more than the physical act. sexuality involves physical aspects, emotional aspects, intellectual aspects, and spiritual aspects. parents are responsible for this, not the nanny state.

and just so you know, my wife and i spend a great deal of time volunteering to teach kids about sexuality and many other things that lead to living healthy and productive lives. how about you and any of your lib buddies? how much time do you spend? i imagine not much. because it's the gubment's job.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

onesmall,
i'm not advocating that only one thing can be taught. i'm advocating that parents make that choice for their kids and not the government.

and maybe you didn't mean it this way, but your statement sounds so much like bho when he said that he didn't want his daughters "punished with a baby" for making a mistake.

babies aren't punishment and waiting lists of adoptive parents are long.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jar,
i've never pushed anyone around with my enontions.

i'm also not lying. many could care less about those millions who have been aborted but they love to demonize bush for "fake" drowning. what a crock!

you may not be, but i'm true blue pro-life. no abortion, no death penalty. and i'm on the streets of abilene every day trying to help improve the lives of as many as i can from conception to grave. how 'bout you, big talker?

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pretty typical of Llama's libness that she wants me to ban me from expressing my opinions because they conflict with hers. What a typical-anything-goes-except-morality demoncrat response.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"sexuality is one of those places where you can't teach the how's without teaching the why's"

Sure you can. In fact, that's EXACTLY how it worked in my sex ed class. My parents and church group taught me the whys. My sex ed teacher said, "I'm not here to teach you the whys," then proceeded to teach the hows.

"and just so you know, my wife and i spend a great deal of time volunteering to teach kids about sexuality and many other things that lead to living healthy and productive lives. how about you and any of your lib buddies? how much time do you spend? i imagine not much. because it's the gubment's job."

Huckster, while I disagree pretty strongly with most of your macro views, I truly believe that you are a hell of a guy and I have no doubt that your actions on a personal level are probably an example to us all.

I don't want to brag but, since you asked, I will say that I actually do a lot of community service. (You may have seen me out in my jumpsuit. It's kind of hard to miss.)

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Pretty typical of Llama's libness that she wants me to ban me from expressing my opinions because they conflict with hers."

I was talking about my own post. In retrospect, it was probably a little over the line for this forum.

The only thing offensive about your posts is the fact that they are gravid with ignorance. My position is better served by keeping your posts intact.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"many could care less about those millions who have been aborted but they love to demonize bush for "fake" drowning"

Abortion = legal.

Waterboarding = illegal.

(Which is more response than that point warrants.)

Posted by pcdrs on August 28, 2008 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

huck, you're outdoing your normal out of touch routine and adding new levels of "not a clue".

Planned parenthood does many good things for the people you taught abstinance to but they made a mistake and need help. The abstinance teachers don't give help to the sinners except to say "We told you so, don't bother us".

Great job dalai, If you want to make a republican mad tell um the truth, look what it did to kelpy.

Posted by Gus on August 28, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kelpy: It is exactly your postion and attitudes that allow PP to thrive. You really believe that "Christian" young people, "good" girls don't ever have sex outside of marriage or have unwanted pregnancies!! Many, many of my patients in the past were young, frightened Christian woman looking for a way to make it all go away because they were absolutely sure their parents would never forgive them and they would lose all contact with their families. They would have chosen adoption, but the attitudes of their Christian community condemed them for being pregnant.

For thousands of young women, forgiveness from God is easier to seek than to live with condemnation from a Christian community.

All you have to do is read some of these posts to understand why.

Posted by qquixi on August 28, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am pro-choice not pro-abortion. It is a womans choice. It is not yours or societies decision to make or live with.

“The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world.” — German physicist Max Born

“A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.” — Winston Churchill

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice that it
always coincides with their own desires." — Susan B. Anthony

“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.” — Abraham Lincoln

"The United States was in no way founded as a Christian nation." — John Adams, during the
1797 signing of the Treaty of Triploi with Muslim leaders

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” —
Martin Luther King, Jr.

“We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.” —
Jonathan Swift

“Our knowledge can only be finite, while our ignorance must necessarily be infinite.” — Karl
Popper

Posted by bird82 on August 28, 2008 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen Gus.

What we're really talking about here is biology. Teenagers are by nature rebellious and impulsive. It really doesn't matter if they are taught that sex before marriage is wrong. If they want to have sex, they will. Refusing to teach them how to have sex safely is completely irresponsible. If you want to prevent abortions, then teach people how to prevent the pregnency in the first place!!

Posted by TexasTwister on August 28, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good grief, people....do you not recognize a troll when you see one (aka kelpy)?

Posted by ropers40 on August 28, 2008 at 7:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ROE-V-WADE is basically one vote away from being overthrown. When presidents appoint justices that are only appointed to satisfy their parties wants its nothing more than stacking the deck to get what you want for your party and or your personal beliefs.
If McCain wins and any of the pro choice judges retire or die then McCain will make sure he appoints a pro life judge. Its is simple stack the deck in your favor and get what you want.
If Roe-V-Wade is overturnrd then we have to live with what the consequences of it might be.
We all hope we have taught our children well, but if they make a mistake such as getting pregnant do we really want them to have a back room abortion that might kill them.
While I do believe in life I also know that kids will be kids and my kids life is not worth a dumb mistake that they try and take care of themselves.
I would ask, are you willing to live with the consequences of losing a child because they had a backroom abortion.
Overly dramatic maybe, truthful possible, are you willing to take the chance.

Posted by abideejay on August 28, 2008 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kelpy's posts....wow. I'm not sure there's a word that I can use in here that won't get me banned. "Sex is meant for procreation, not fun"?!!?!? Wow. She/he must not be doing something right. Sex is a heck of a lot of fun, and even better when someone else is involved ;) (please don't remove me!!)

On a serious note: I'm a mid-30's male. I grew up in a traditional home with both parents. I had many opportunities to do things I shouldn't...and I didn't. I knew what the consequences were. I had many female friends in high school who lived in fear of being 'late'. I had male friends who lived in fear of their girlfriends being 'late'. I didn't want to deal with any of that and through choices made by me, I never had to deal with it. Teenagers will do what they want to do. It's up to us to give them the proper information to make educated decisions. How many people out there with teenagers would rather have their kid call them at 3am from a party for a ride home instead of getting in the car with someone who has been drinking? (and before you say 'not my kid' give it a rest. Every kid will face a choice like that someday) Wouldn't you rather have an educated adult conversation with your child than have them live in fear of what you'll say/do when they come to you for help after making a bad decision? I feel sorry for Kelpy's kid. She'll never know what it's like to have an honest discussion with her parent. She'll just have to live in fear of disappointing them because she is probably too scared of her bible-beating hellfire and brimstone spouting parents to be able to approach them with questions about growing up! Someday she'll be out of the house, totally unprepared for the real world with real temptations, real decisions, and real consequences that she'll face on a day to day basis. Hopefully she has a trusted adult to talk to who can answer real questions with real answers instead of pulling bible quotes to suit how they think life should be.

Oh, and who I vote for is none of anyone's business...and if I go to hell for voting for someone, well, I'll see you there 'cause I'm sure that if that's all it takes we're all in a lot of trouble.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 8:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

story out today:

NYC has an HIV infection rate 3x that of the rest of the country. but the city also handed out 37 million (not a typo) free condoms last year alone.

abstinence is the ONLY method that prevents pregnancy and the spead of STDs every time it is tried.

i know this is an oversimplification, but for argument's sake: if you could offer a cure for cancer that is 100% effective, why would you ever give anyone something that is only 95% effective? sex is a good thing, but when done outside the confines of a committed marriage, then there are consequences. one consequence is an unplanned pregnancy, but in today's society the consequences can also be more deadly than cancer.

dalai, if you teach the hows without teaching the why's, then are giving tacit approval.

again, one more time, if the school wants to offer sex ed that includes that which is other than abstinence only, that's fine, as long as parents choose to have their kids attend and my kids and others whose parents don't agree aren't forced to attend.

please explain how that leaves anyone out.

Posted by huckster on August 28, 2008 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

one other thing, if you will all ignore kelpy, he/she will go away.

Posted by LibCoC on August 28, 2008 at 8:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Planned Parenthood does much, much more than provide abortions. Abilene United Way doesn't support Planned Parenthood. Tax dollars going to United Way/Planned Parenthood? When did that happen? Sex is for procreation only? OK, then post-menopausal women who have sex with their husbands are sinning? If you get a vasectomy, you have to stop having sex? (Then why get the vasectomy? Oh, there are so many twists and turns in your philosophy!)

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"...dalai, if you teach the hows without teaching the why's, then are giving tacit approval."

Yes. If we would just withhold our tacit approval, all those naughty teens would stop having sex.

Teens in other developed nations have about as much sex as we do, yet their STD and unintended pregnancy rates are much lower than America's. If abstinence and good old family values are so effective at curing this problem, why is Texas near the top of the list when it comes to teen pregnancy? Telling kids that babies are found under cabbage leaves doesn't keep them from having sex. It just keeps them from taking precautions when they do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with the statistic you kind of quoted. Seems to me like New York is handing out the condoms BECAUSE it has such a high rate of infection. Using proven methods to combat an elevated risk seems kind of like common sense to me. As long as we're being apocryphal, I wonder how many of those condoms made their way into the hands of teenagers. I wonder how New York's teen pregnancy rate compares to our own. That might be worth looking up one of these days.

Your cancer analogy is completely flawed. If human beings had a biological compulsion to roll around in toxic waste, you might have a point with it, but even then it would be shaky.

Posted by JarHead on August 28, 2008 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Abstinence only sex education has failed everywhere it has been tried. That is documented by your own administration. Trying to force cancer patients to accept a treatment that is a total failure is beyond cruel. The facts are that abstinence only education fails and is directly responsible for more unwanted pregnancies, abortions and spread of sexually transmitted disease than any sex education program ever 'tried'. It is the students of abstinence programs or no programs at all (same statistical rates) that are seeking abortions and treatment for STDs, not condom users.

Posted by reaganite on August 28, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TexasTwister
"Good grief, people....do you not recognize a troll when you see one (aka kelpy)?"

Actually, kelpy is a "moby".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define...

Posted by dalai-llama on August 28, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, Reaganite. I'd never heard that term. Comedy.

Posted by reaganite on August 28, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dalai-llama
One of the few things you and I will agree on is that people pretending to be what they are not is BS.

kelpy is pretending, and doing a really poor job.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Reaganite and Huckster, obviously you've been corrupted by the PC Police. It's alright to be a TRUE Conservative, no matter what Barack Hussein Obama tells you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am only saying what all Conservatives think but are too afraid to say because of how LIBERAL this nation has become.

Posted by abideejay on August 28, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kelpy,
Really? You're going to try the 'Hussein' tactic? You're even more twisted than I originally suspected. Good grief! It's not like he chose that name!

Posted by reaganite on August 28, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Persistent moby, isn't it?

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I took a look at the the link "Reaganite" provided and it took me to a website that is dedicated to some alternative rock guy named "Moby". Yep, once again the demoncrats have tried to infiltrate our side. I guess I'll look forward to Mr. Moby and his rock band playing the GOP Convention. Hehhehheh...nice try "Reaganite".

Posted by TexasTwister on August 28, 2008 at 11:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, reaganite....hadn't heard that term before but it fits kelpy to a T. Especially this part of the definition: "The strategy has been frequently attempted on conservative blogs, but has not been nearly as effective as Moby envisioned, since false rumors are easily debunked by fact-checking minions, and cartoonishly extreme commenters often get immediately identified as mobys and banned."

"Cartoonish"....perfect. I'm surprised he's been able to draw so many folks on these threads into his little game. Doesn't say a lot about our resistance to provocation, does it?

Posted by GaryBuseysBartender on August 28, 2008 at 11:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kelpy, you're really Piper Laurie, right? Tell me that you're stuck inside "Carrie", and you can't get anyone to stop the projector? Again, looking at the original article, we've strayed way off subject. Oops, shouldn't have used the word "strayed" in front of kelpy. The problem here is one that we've had before. According to kelpy, "...in the Bible, which is the basis for the laws and standards in this Christian nation". Umm, you haven't noticed that we have a Constitution have you? Well, the last time I checked, the Constitution is the basis for the laws and standards in this nation. And no, you can't call this a "Christian" nation, because we are guaranteed freedom of religion by that very document. That means that if I want to worship the guy who fixes my car and give him 10% of my earnings, that's OK! Come to think of it, he already gets that.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 11:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And if everyone will click on the screen name for "Reaganite" and read back a few pages, you'll see that he has a history of insulting Conservatives he finds too conservative. Hmmmm -- who's the troller now "Reaganite"? At least I'm not ashamed of my loyalty.

Posted by TexasTwister on August 28, 2008 at 11:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

daili....seems we disagree on just about every topic that comes up on these boards, but I'm glad we can agree that this despicable little troll/moby has no place among us.

I think I speak for other conservatives on here in saying that we would be just as offended by a someone ghosting as a Democrat saying things like they want all Republicans dead, or that all conservatives are war-mongers simply to defame true Democrats that don't hold those views.

Posted by kelpy on August 28, 2008 at 11:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Awww -- how cute. Twister and Llama are gonna have a sweet little bi-partisan hug because of their deeeeep hatred of that nasty ol' troll/moby Kelpy. "Oh my goodness! Whatever shall we do? Someone who doesn't care about PC liberalness has the gall to state their views on a public message board without worrying what Barack Hussein Obama thinks. Horrors!"

Posted by huckster on August 29, 2008 at 12:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jarhead,
i didn't know i had been elected to anything, but i appreciate knowing i have an adminstration. dang! i want my back pay. where's my limo? nuke california and new york!!!

you made a lot of claims with nothing backed up. you used to be better at this. come back when you can bring your a-game.

dalai,
you are stuck in your ideology, bro. you can't seem to see the forest for the trees. the nyc story is a perfect illustration. handing out condoms without morals education doesn't solve anything. they handed out the 37 million condoms before they learned that their HIV infection rate was 3x the national average.

i admitted that the cancer analogy was flawed, so no reason to pat yourself on the back for figuring it out. but, the fact remains that abstinence is the ONLY thing that absolutely prevents both pregnancy and the spread of STDs.

i used to be a school teacher. one of the things that was drilled into us was that we should have extremely high expectations for our students because they will typically achieve what is expected of them. several years after i graduated from college, outcome based education became the "it" thing. OBE takes away expectations and just lets the kids progress at their own pace. i can tell you from experience that only the truly exceptional kids progressed at all. same principle with sex ed. we tell the kids, "Hey, you shouldn't do this, but we know you will anyway." and they live up to the expectations we put before them.

many on here also seem to be either confused or dishonest about abstinence based sex ed programs. they don't consist of only saying, "Don't!" there is a great deal of education that goes on in these programs.

Posted by JarHead on August 29, 2008 at 6:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Planned Parenthood gets positive results. That is far more than abstinence programs can say. Abstinence sex education programs don't work and are full of lies. Even after 10 years and $1.5 billion.Now it's time for the supporters of abstinence programs to put up or shut up.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinen...

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/...

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/200...

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publ...

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/20...

Posted by lyssakaye on August 29, 2008 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This may have already been posted but here is a website that Planned Parenthood produced and uses our hard earned tax money to "teach" our children about sex. Take the time to look at it and you will see this is not only about sex ed.

http://www.takecaredownthere.org/

"I didn't spew" is particularly disturbing. As adults you may think this is funny, I even laughed at some of it. BUT I don't want my teenage daughters watching this. The entire website is geared to our young generation.

Posted by lyssakaye on August 29, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

After rereading the original letter, the poster probably was referring to the website above

http://www.takecaredownthere.org/

For all the people that are saying that PP is doing sex ed, you must check out the website. I agree sex ed must be taught but this website really goes over the line. After looking at the referenced website, come back and post your opinions.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 29, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I checked it out yesterday.

I thought the clips were kind of dorky, but the site's use of Flash was exceptional, and the information it communicated was accurate and straightforward.

The situations were certainly blunt, but that is the point.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 29, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"i admitted that the cancer analogy was flawed, so no reason to pat yourself on the back for figuring it out."

Yeah, but you still posted it, and you're still trying to tie it in to this:

"the fact remains that abstinence is the ONLY thing that absolutely prevents both pregnancy and the spread of STDs"

It's an indisputable point. Abstinence is the ONLY fool-proof method to avoid this stuff.

The problem is that the failure rate of abstinence as a birth control method is remarkably high - by the time they are 19, 76% of all teens fail to use abstinence correctly.

When the abstinence method fails, and it does, other methods can be used to reduce the consequences of sex, but only if teens ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING about other methods.

"...they don't consist of only saying, "Don't!" there is a great deal of education that goes on in these programs."

I have been very careful to use "abstinence-only" in this thread. I think an abstinence component of a full sex ed course is necessary. Delaying sex in teens is a worthy goal.

The problem is that abstinence-based programs - the kind that have flourished under this administration and in the wake of Title V - are scientifically inaccurate, deliberately distort the truth, preclude teaching about condoms and contraception, and are ineffective.

Posted by lyssakaye on August 29, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

llama,
I should have the right to say "NO" for my taxes to be used on soft porn to educate children about sex. I agree with the original letter that this form of education is "trash". Remember this is geared for children not adults.

"Softcore or (soft porn) does not depict explicit sexual contact, but ranges from nudity to simulated intercourse."--Wikipedia

Posted by dalai-llama on August 29, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's geared for teens, not children, and if you think the situations depicted in the videos are beyond the experience of most teens, you are sadly mistaken.

I would also argue that one of the defining elements of pornography is an appeal to prurient interest. The intent to get people all hot and bothered is what differentiates the Venus de Milo from last month's Juggs magazine, and anyone aroused by the videos on that site needs psychological help.

I am willing to sacrifice decorum for effectiveness; I would rather make a point in a shocking way than not make a point at all. However, I do recognize that some might find this site's candidness offensive.

If you think it was an inappropriate use of your tax dollars, write your congressman. You should also write a second letter to the editor and e-mail everyone in your address book about the site. More people need to be made aware of this terrible site.

Posted by mbs0606 on August 29, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lyssakaye- If this form of sex education works for some teens then I say, it's done it's job. If you don't want your kids to see it, then refrain from them watching it. But just because this form of education would not work for yours does not mean it wouldn't work for other kids. Just like the teachings in school, every kid learns different.

Posted by huckster on August 29, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

okay, my kids respond well to being taught the truth of the Christian Scriptures. so will you allow your tax dollars to teach my kids from that perspective?

Posted by northside67 on August 29, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's see,

Sex outside of Marriage = Bad

Rudy Giuliani
Ronald Reagan
Newt Gingrich

If the Rs would PRACTICE what it preached, then I wouldn't have to wince every time it preached family values, then ask for my vote based on that!

Posted by officerx on August 29, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's see northside.....let's judge you just because of the actions of some people in a group of people you identify yourself with. So out of all the Democrats....there are no hypocrytes??? Man, ya'll are the perfect party, huh?

If the Democrats had in practice what they preached, we'd be living under a socialist system of governement now wouldn't we?

Posted by dalai-llama on August 29, 2008 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"...okay, my kids respond well to being taught the truth of the Christian Scriptures so will you allow your tax dollars to teach my kids from that perspective?"

Of course not.

Even if it were not a violation of the separation of church and state, your kids are not responding solely to the "truth of the Christian Scriptures." They are responding to a message being taught in a loving household by concerned and involved parents who probably reinforce it by keeping their kids tied into the psychological and esteem-building support provided by extended family and the social network of church. I would imagine that your children are probably also relatively well educated, fairly bright, and assured of a promising future that will be cut off or indefinitely postponed if they get themselves all knocked up at 16. In short, they have very strong incentives to avoid the consequences of premarital sex, as well as the resources they need to understand the danger and minimize its risks. You could put a kid in those circumstances and tell her not to have sex because Barney the purple dinosaur doesn't want to her to, then watch in amazement as she responds to the truth of Barney's scriptures.

Kids who are not raised in that environment and don't have the same advantages need to be taught, and taught young, about how to minimize the dangers of sex. That's a basic, common-sense approach. It is backed by decades of research and is readily apparent in even the most superficial comparison of teen pregnancy rates. Abstinence should be encouraged, yes, but trusting kids to not have sex because Jesus says it's a no-no is dangerous. The past few years provide more than enough evidence to demonstrate quite amply that using that approach leads to higher teen pregnancy rates (in what year did teen pregnancies increase for the first time in over a decade?).

We tried the abstinence-based thing. It doesn't work. It's time to get back to what does.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 29, 2008 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"If the Democrats had in practice what they preached, we'd be living under a socialist system of governement now wouldn't we?"

Back this statement up, please. Define socialism and provide three points of reference to show that the Democratic Party's policies would lead to the United States having a socialist system of government.

Posted by ces on August 29, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First, Planned Parenthood doesn't perform abortions, they provide contriception and other female realted health services (paps, std testing, etc).

Second, just because you teach your children abstinance doesn't mean they're going to abide by that. My parents preached to me about not having sex before marriage... and I certainly had sex behind my parents back as a teenager, a lot of my friends did behind their parents backs too, friends whose parents were much like mine. I did use protection though, and I never got pregnant as a teenager. No matter how much you preach to your children, and "raise them right", if a 16 year old has the will... they will find the way. If you think otherwise, you're both naive and in denial. (And I promise you the more strict you are the more your kids will rebel in many cases).

And finally, Planned Parenthood "caters" mostly to those who are unable to afford this type of healthcare otherwise. The same people who use this type of aid are in a lot of cases the same people who, if unable to obtain affordable contraception and had children, would be raising their children on things like Lonestar, and Medicaid... government agencies which "you people" also seem to highly opposed to.

Posted by up_in_here_2 on August 29, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah yes, abortion is horrible, unless it is my 15 year old daughter who gets pregnant and I dont want anyone at the local country club to know she is sexually active... then I am all for it. Pro Life 85% of the time....

Posted by morgan1313 on August 29, 2008 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ahhh....how soon we forget.....Hitler also had a "Planned Parenthood" type of vehicle....it was called the Holocaust!
How many pre-born children are murdered every year in this country alone!

Posted by coach611 on August 30, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How many babies have aborted since 1973 roe vs wade?
Approximately 3000 babies each day are aborted. Do the math. 3000x365 days per year x 35 years.

3000x365=1,095,000 per year x 35 years =38,325,000 babies aborted since Roe V Wade.

Wow, I wish we had these people around to be in the work force while all these baby boomers are retiring. I guess Social Security goes hand in hand with social responsibility more than anyone thought.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 30, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You know that lack of family planning options (not just abortion but information and access to contraceptives) disproportionately affects the poor, right? A good chunk* of your 38 million ded bebbies would now be on the welfare rolls and so would their kids. In fact, some of the real go-getters from that crop in 1973 could now be grandparents.

Again, ensuring that EVERYONE has access to good family planning information and contraception is the BEST way to reduce abortions. If your interest is in punishing sinful harlots who didn't obey God's law, go off and do your thing. However, if you are actually interested in reducing the holocaust of the unborn (it's too early to keep a straight face), you should be one of the loudest, most vocal supporters of comprehensive sex education.

* It's too early for research. I'm gonna pretend that "a good chunk" is a valid sociological quantity.

Posted by mbs0606 on August 30, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

But let's just imagine if people weren't allowed to abort their child. Most likely if they didn't want the baby and ended up with the child, they probably aren't going to be the best parent to that baby. What if a woman was raped and became pregnant? Is that fair to force her to keep the child? What about a woman whose pregnancy is endangering her life?

up_in_here- I can not believe what you said. Whatever. No point arguing with a tool.

Posted by pcc55 on August 30, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

check out the new planned parenthood website:
www.takecaredownthere.com if you really care what they stand for or are just talking.

Posted by dalai-llama on August 30, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the link, pc55. That is some wild stuff.

Posted by morgan1313 on August 30, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To all of you "what ifers" I have one word: A-D-O-P-T-I-O-N!

Posted by wild_bill on August 31, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How many babies have you adopted morgan1313? I haven't adopted or aborted any. Nor do I intend to.

Posted by morgan1313 on August 31, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wild_bill, I am the father of a murdered preborn child! I BEGGED my ex to carry the child to term and let me raise him/her but she refused and went to an abortion mill and had our child murdered. It was a long time ago and I'm not going to say anymore on the subject.

Posted by kimtx on August 31, 2008 at 11:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I must say I needed a good laugh and found it thanks to posts from kelpy..... What a hoot! You say sex is for marriage only; for procreation. I am guessing you are divorced then? Am guessing you didn't intend to conceive everytime you were intimate with your spouse? And I agree with a previous poster: If it is no fun then clearly you MUST be doing something wrong... You are so close-minded it is sad... You are entitled to your opinion, like everyone else, but you are the one that needs to pull your head out of the sand and realize not everyone has the "perfect" children that you claim you have... I witnessed people at my church that were excellent, God-fearing parents and yet there children were sinners. You need to get over yourself.

Posted by wild_bill on September 1, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So go adopt a child morgan1313. Or be a foster parent. Or Big Brother/Big Sister. There are plenty of kids out there that DO need someone who cares about them; who can love them.

You didn't abort your child. You bear no guilt or fault for someone else's actions, just your own. I do not know how to offer someeone comfort for a loss such as your own, so I won't try. I will simply say "I am sorry for your loss morgan1313".